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#13300894 Jun 15, 2017 at 03:56 PM
Member
7 Posts
Nice! Sadly looking at your 56 I got same level yesterday! ^^
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#13301285 Jun 15, 2017 at 07:25 PM
Officer
63 Posts
I felt 55 in Moria was the right time to initiate this discussion. Lir's idea above was posted to offer it for a wider audience for consideration and not to upset anyone or make them jump to conclusions (although my latter post have probably added to that a bit and if so I apologize). With that, allow me to address a few things, please.

#13300742 Jullian wrote:

Opinions are like bumholes. Everyone has one and they all stink.

While there is wisdom in those words, this is a Forum.
It is meant to serve a purpose other than providing a platform for a compilation of bumholes... in my opinion :)

#13300742 Jullian wrote:

I seem to spend a lot of time looking ahead to whats coming up and trying to plan stuff.

This is no different for the most of us - hence we participate in discussions such as this.

#13300742 Jullian wrote:

Consistently it comes back to how quickly/slowly we are levelling.

The pace of leveling is fundamental to the Club. It should be a core part of discussions, especially so when it comes to progression and planning.

#13300742 Jullian wrote:

I am making the undemocratic decision that begining the first of July, we shall raise the level cap 2 levels each month.

As is your right. However I would urge you to reconsider.

#13300742 Jullian wrote:

People should not feel constrained to be limited (*) by whatever content I or anyone else dictates we can or cannot do. For example, if people wish to continue ahead with Mirkwood landing at level 56, then feel free.

I beg to differ. There are restrictions and everybody consents to them upon joining the Turtles. That is not dictatorship. Bera called it 'gentleman's agreement' on the Official Forums, has a nice ring to it.
Every Turtle that contributed to this thread so far has expressed the same preference: Respect the Epic Line. Now you tell them to feel free not to? Why?
(*constrained & limited mean the same thing)

#13300742 Jullian wrote:

rather than try to please everyone

I agree, we can't. It's about balance.

I will follow up with a post regarding my thoughts based on Lir's idea.

Yours Best ;)
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
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#13301356 Jun 15, 2017 at 08:12 PM
Founder
338 Posts
#13301285 Siggar wrote:



I will follow up with a post regarding my thoughts based on Lir's idea.

Yours Best ;)



Then why not do that in the first place rather than pick holes in my suggestions.

Ultimately someone has to make the decision regarding how often we raise the level cap.

I am trying to take into consideration all views from those playing through first time to those that can play every night and burn through content.

Historically we have raised the cap following the epic quest. We have moved to following instances. I keep getting rammed down my throat that we are so uber and every thing we do is face roll. Nothing I can suggest will ever change that. So where do we go from here?

Again historically we were slow levelling. 56 levels over three years. Without checking I think we averaged less than 20 levels year. Regarding lothlorien. And mirkwood I suggested the next three camps with level raises to take us to 60. That's no different than what I'm suggesting we do now.

Like I said I'm all ears. If I ask a question like 'will that mean jumping 5 levels a time' please answer that and we can keep just how uber our group is to other discussions.

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#13301474 Jun 15, 2017 at 09:54 PM · Edited 1 month ago
Officer
63 Posts
For once I hoped to leave something out in the open for a while and wait for someone else (or better a number of people) to make a suggestion regarding OR build upon the idea.

Yes, I could have just made my own straight away as I have done a couple of times in the past and nearly every time it got implemented the way I suggested it. In one hand I hope that it means that people are happy with my reasoning and think of my recommendations as sound inputs that worth following. On the other hand I worry that people might interpret it as it's 'what Siggar wants' all the time...

So I took a chance and the result is I triggered a valued member... I can only repeat my apology here: I am sorry, J! The intention wasn't to 'ram things down your throat'.
We have tried to define 'difficult' and 'challenging' in the Club many a time and - as I have expressed before - the % of skills Deflected is a rather poor and disappointing way to measure it but I agree with you, most of the time that's all the game can provide us with. *a sad face goes here*

The true challenge lies in coordination, attention to the group's surroundings, recognizing and adjusting to demanding mechanics, class' (and the specializations thereof) synergy, preparation and effective communication in my opinion. Landscape and the majority of T1s simply don't require these much. And that's where the other aspects of being part of such an amazing group (and server/community/game) come in: the opportunity to role-play, showcase cosmetics, go deed-hunting or explore/race to the next Stable-master...
T2s were introduced for the first time with Mirkwood - we are at its gates. Naturally, this is a good time to consider them.

Historically, both Shadows of Angmar and Mines of Moria had set levels for their (only T1) Instances (some of SoA's were later revamped to scalable to save them from sinking into oblivion). The most obvious way to adjust difficulty in those cases have always been leveling. And this is pretty much what slowtroing meant (regarding Instances) for the last 3 years.
If abc Instance is a constant failure at level x, try it later on x+1 then x+2 if need be, until you can call it a success - most of them are not even revisited when the group gets to the suggested level (as per the Intance Finder) apart from completing Deeds. Why? 'Cause you already have quest rewards from 5 levels above and the opportunity to equip scaling loot (and EB jewelry)...
If an Instance isn't much fun, drops only outdated loot and provides little to no challenge then why run it? Instinctively, we will look for something that offers things we desire.

Most would consider SoA and even MoM (to some extent, the Radiance mechanic and LIs excluded for the most part) vanilla LOTRO. There is a whole new world out there past Lothl├│rien... and now is the time to prepare for reforms.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
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#13301540 Jun 15, 2017 at 10:42 PM
Member
7 Posts
To have a right to call our community The Club we have to follow some specific rules and main rule approved by all members as I noticed already is to control the content we are doing, so I sgree wth Sig that this can't be changed

Idea regarding extension-based develoment sounds good, we can get level 60 step by step doing only Mines of Moria (Lothlorien and back to Moria) content and start Mirkwood already at level 60
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#13301732 Jun 16, 2017 at 12:40 AM · Edited 1 month ago
Officer
63 Posts
#13300556 Siggar wrote:

Wanted to share the below from one of the threads of the Officer's Lounge (Officer-only part of the forum) - yes, our sacred councils, precious, yeeeees *.* -, part of a discussion from the first quarter concerning planning:

....

The more I think about Lir's idea the more appealing I find it...



my main aim i suppose was to bring a halt to the frequent need for reviewing what the level cap is at anyone time - it has a tendency to interupt the flow of our gaming experience it should be fun and require minimum management i think. Thus if we use Moria as an example we'd lay out key stages perhaps something like this (just indicative I/we would put more time into the launch if it were for real)

first half of MoM we are level 45 the dwarves have newly established a foothold.....bit of background - if you want to reread LOTR the fellowship travel through the mines in chapters x-y of FOTR?

week 1 - rp the entrance to Moria and face the watcher in the water (at the walls) as group content - pick up task for LI forging you'll be working on this for a while - see guide at www.

by week 6 we aim to have ventured as far the epic content that ties in with the forgotten treasury (aim to be level 50?) - instance night

by week 10 - same as above for grand stair (lvl 52?) completion of this will mark the conclusion of the first half of the expansion (cap also on epic questline)



detail would be added to the gaps obviously with people suggesting parts of the epic for grouping, rp opportunities that tie to the epic storyline etc perhaps even additional stories that we could use as a mechanism to add more fun content like riding deep into higher level zones - sick dwarf needs a herb that grows only on the heathfells (gap of rohan) ride out and bring it back....maybe a lame example but.....you get the idea?

think we can also agree OOC nights for those that want to do scaling instances, deeds, EB, skirms etc

clearly i'm not going to dwell on this as we've been through already - the principles are the important bit

1) we all launch a new expansion at the same time at the same level

2) we give freedom for players to pursue the completion of part 1 (the first half) of the expansion over an agreed time period by which time they should reach an agreed level.

3) we plan key events within that time window at the outset based on what people are interested in. suggestions should be logged for a few weeks before launch - these will focus on key elements of the story and involve epic fellowship quests, instances and rp opportunities.

once thats planned the next 10 weeks (or whatever time is agreed ) we can forget about managing levels/content etc and get on with play

thats the bones of how i conceived it, a bit of prep every 3 months or so.....over to yous please feel free to dis or build on the above
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#13302252 Jun 16, 2017 at 09:17 AM · Edited 1 month ago
Founder
338 Posts
I can see the benefits of Lir's suggestion mapping out the level raises in advance based on the next few expansions.

I would like a more structured plan for us going ahead, and something like 5 level raises a time to coincide with instances would make sense. I would add the caveat of a minimum of three months between them though.

The decision of at what level we attempt stuff should also be a consideration though. Will we prefer to be the recomended level for the xpac so that we can benifit from stuff that we loot. As noted going forward we can set higher levels for most instances or run stuff on T2.

Just throwing numbers out....
Summer 2017 (June - August) Lothlorien 55-60
Autumn 2017 (Sept - November) Mirkwood 60 - 65
Winter 2017 (Dec - Feb) ROI 65 - 70
Spring 2018 (Mar - May) ROI 70 - 75

Edit: removed irrellevant stuff

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#13302261 Jun 16, 2017 at 09:28 AM
Founder
338 Posts
I just wanted to say that much of yesterdays frustrations come from a lack of input from everyone so we can go forward and make a decision. As well as offering peoples approval to suggestions I need people to offer solutions as to how we achieve those goals.

Maybe I am trying to micro manage too much :P
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#13306311 Jun 18, 2017 at 07:16 PM
Member
2 Posts
So, I've been gathering up information regarding the Mirkwood-Enedwaith problem. There's been some debate, but after gathering some information, I'd like to believe that the best option is an IC and OOC solution. OOC is simple, really; we do both Mirkwood and Enedwaith at once, five levels below the recommended. However, IC, it's a different story.

Dol Guldur's a pretty pressing issue, there's no doubt about it. It's the big finale of Vol II, and finally lays Zigilburk to rest.

However, VOL III is also a very pressing matter, along with the issues of time frame. And since the Grey Company needs to be rounded up all over Eriador (definitely not a small place) ASAP and get moving towards Aragorn, that means there's not enough time to do one at a time.

In short, the Company of the Tortoise, in order to get things done in their usual slow manner, will need to split the party.

Some will go on into Mirkwood, ready to trade prisoners with the Necromancer's old home. Others, however, will have to journey back through Moria to Rivendell, and will then have to split up even further to go and recruit all of the Rangers of the Grey Company. By the time VOL II is finished, the other Tortoise members can reunite once more as the Grey Company finishes passing through Enedwaith, and be together just in time to start Dunland.

Of course, I understand if some folk don't like this idea- 'never split the party' is a known saying for a few good reasons. However, in the interest of roleplay, it makes the most sense for some to finish VOL II, while others go about getting VOL III ready to go.

What's everyone's opinion on this idea?
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#13306505 Jun 18, 2017 at 09:33 PM
Officer
63 Posts
Many thanks for the input, Harh, it is most appreciated!

Splitting OoC / IC is what we essentially did at levels 45-50 (to be able to start Moria with the -5 levels challenge) and it was the primary reason for the confusion. It does not mean we can not repeat it... but our aim is to try and find alternatives that are maybe better.

Yes, as a company we should be able to execute multiple missions simultaneously by splitting our resources and so I find the idea naturally appealing. However if we don't want to split IC&OoC then it would mean the creation of two groups when we already struggle most nights to get 6 together and that each group will miss the content the other's doing...

We shall keep this going!
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
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#13306610 Jun 18, 2017 at 10:46 PM
Founder
338 Posts
Thanks for the input Wagoo, glad to see your first post is right into the meat of it.
Having enough time isnt really a problem in a group like ours that .. well takes it time doing stuff.

I would be adverse to splitting the group up into team A & B simply for the fact that there are some that have not experiences both sides of the story as it has been laid out. So wether it is your first time.. or 20th time... as a Turtle is should be a storyline we all share together.

The downside is.. well we will be tackling Enedwaith over level, but that is really a decision Turbine took when they lowered the level requirements of the whole area when RoI came out. There is nothing stopping those that want to, doing Deeds in Enedwaith when such a time becomes available. As for storyline, well thats obviously OOC. As with Lothlorien, people were free to pop their noses out and begine working Rep there.
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#13306847 Jun 19, 2017 at 02:01 AM
Member
2 Posts
I should clarify that I was thinking of time from an IC perspective. OOC, there's all the time in the world.

It's the same case for roleplay- we can still all experience the same stuff together, but IC, everyone would be off doing their own thing.

However, if you guys are having a problem with keeping track of who's supposed to be where and who's doing what section OOC, I'd be more than willing to keep track of that sort of thing. I may not be able to come on at a good hour on Wednesday, but I sure as heck can assist from a behind the scenes perspective.
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#13311641 Jun 21, 2017 at 06:57 PM · Edited 1 month ago
Officer
63 Posts
­čĹŹ
It seems we have acheived what we initially set out to do. The Company will progress through content keeping the Epic Story (with its requirements and timeline) in mind.

On behalf of the Officers I would like to Thank Everyone for their input and consider the discussion concluded with the following:
  • 1st of July - Level raise to 58, Lothl├│rien and MoM World Instances
  • 1st of August - Level raise to 60, Caras Galadhon and MoM Raids

The Officer Team will continue to work on the plan for the future expansions to ease the flow and facilitate the various playstyles present in the Club.
In particular we will look closely on possible implementations for Siege of Mirkwood in the coming weeks and provide you with an update no later than the 1st of September.


Yours Best ;)
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
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#13312587 Jun 22, 2017 at 08:53 AM
Founder
338 Posts
Thanks all.
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#13312689 Jun 22, 2017 at 10:46 AM
Member
18 Posts
Sounds a solid plan to me!
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#13317810 Jun 25, 2017 at 03:25 PM
Officer
63 Posts
#13311641 Siggar wrote:

­čĹŹ
It seems we have acheived what we initially set out to do. The Company will progress through content keeping the Epic Story (with its requirements and timeline) in mind.

On behalf of the Officers I would like to Thank Everyone for their input and consider the discussion concluded with the following:

  • 1st of July - Level raise to 58, Lothl├│rien and MoM World Instances
  • 1st of August - Level raise to 60, Caras Galadhon and MoM Raids

The Officer Team will continue to work on the plan for the future expansions to ease the flow and facilitate the various playstyles present in the Club.
In particular we will look closely on possible implementations for Siege of Mirkwood in the coming weeks and provide you with an update no later than the 1st of September.


Yours Best ;)


nicely summarised Sig
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