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#12879238 Nov 25, 2016 at 06:31 PM · Edited over 1 year ago
107 Posts
Fellow Turtles!

A recent post from Jullian in our latest Event Thread inspired this post. Some things can get lost from those threads as time goes by so allow me the opportunity to reflect on that important notion in this format to hopefully preserve it for future reference.

I (we) have been overlooking the +5 level restriction when it comes to using skills that remove debuffs from ourselves. While various potions can be used to remove these effects, the level difference of 5+ renders the support skills that aim to do the same practically useless. As we advance our Company we will be partaking in more and more encounters where such debuffs (and their removal) will be a crucial part of the mechanic - and Corruptions (enemy buffs) will also fall into this category.

The Deflection mechanic of mobs 5-7 levels above our level does not seem that crucial when you miss a damaging skill or two. However not being able to land skills (many times in a row or at all) that control the fight in a manner that is required to beat the encounter can quickly become frustrating. Not only that but it will eventually make us completely abandon further skills due to how low their success rate is in given setting. Removal and crowd control skills (daze, stun, fear and taunts) are prime examples of this.

As most of you already know and experienced World Instances and Raids have added difficulty in the form of +level for mobs within the encounter - particularly bosses. This addition is on top of the advertised level of the Instance/Raid and has a value of 1-5. This brought me to the conclusion that it is not ideal to turtle these 5 levels below the advertised value but rather we should consider the highest level mob (usually the final boss) for the subtraction. Also please note that this write up is primarily and almost exclusively concerns Tier 1 difficulty. Tier 2 should be run (at least) on-lvl due to its heavy built-in penalties.

Just to give some quick examples for lvl 45 (partially based on recent adventures):
Barad GĂșlaran is a 6-man Instance advertised for lvl 50. The bosses within the encounter are lvl 51-52. This means the effects they are applying are 51-52 ergo you can not remove those with skills and there is a significant increase of Deflections in general (compared to a lvl 50 mob).
Helegrod Dragon Wing is a 12/24-man Raid advertised for same. The bosses within the encounter are lvl 53-54. This means you wipe.

While the first example can be completed with a significant amount of effort (and a good bit of luck) the question really is whether it is the difficulty we increased or the frustration? Or rather the extra challenge we are trying to provide ourselves with is the enjoyable kind or not? Do we learn anything in the process, do we hone our skills?
We are facerolling trash pulls regardless of their level being 2 or 5 above us - the latter only taking longer due to the Deflection mechanic. So I would not take those little fights as a base for this. Sure they are necessary and useful both as warm up and practice but I think we have plenty of those encounters doing the landscape quests 5 levels below already.
This should allow us to spend less time cleaning up and more time to focus on the (still challenging) boss fights.

Sincere Regards
Sig ;)
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
#12879316 Nov 25, 2016 at 07:20 PM
379 Posts
Well put Siggar.
I will admit I was frustrated on Wednesday and wondered why perhaps Gro didnt use his 'Ignore the Pain' skill, then noticed Jullian doesnt have his skill till level 46. Then was reminded BG is a level 52 nemesis so we would never had cleared the debuff anyway.

So that was partly my thinking of why the level raise to 47 (your suggestion) was a good one. It helped us finish off Eriador and allows us to attack BG again sometime in the near future with a greater chance of success.

Somewhere in the depths of these forums, you may find a few similar threads where we soon found out that doing instances +5 isnt always productive. I think the term I used was 'bashing our heads against the wall'

Grouping should be fun, and if we constantly wipe due to some mechanic that needs crackerjack timing and the planets to align, sure it gives a great sense of achivement, but at what cost.

In future, we shall check the content of the instance and base our attempts on these numbers.
#12879560 Nov 25, 2016 at 09:34 PM
301 Posts
Agreed. Probably best to go for the +5 difference regarding the end boss, not the trash mobs.

Gror's "Ignore The Pain" only goes +5 levels, so it was useless against the Rogmul. This removes the possibility of using a very central mechanism in the encounter. It's one thing to be challenged, it's another to be hamstrung.

So instances should maybe not be +5, but maybe +3 or even +2 for raids.
Berawena of Archet
Bera's Background and Letters
#12882165 Nov 27, 2016 at 10:23 AM
Sleeping Turtle
33 Posts
Fighting "red" landscape mobs provides a bit more interest in that environment but I'm not sure that is the case with instances. From Gwen's point of view too many of her skills simply deflect on "red" mobs and she ends up doing dps. With "orange" ones success seems far more likely and with "white" ones it is more or less guaranteed.

There is a sweet spot there somewhere as regards difficulty. Maybe in the yellow/orange area.

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